I have some clarification questions around partisans. The German has played the Nationalists and Separatist card in our game. I didn't defend against it (too many cards to keep track of, more on that in a different post); oops. But I have some rules confusion around Partisan Divisions.
25.3.3 Control Limit: Where a Partisan unit resides there is disorder, that specific hex and its facilities (Rail, Anchorage, Air Base, etc.) are unusable by any Faction. Control of that hex and its facilities revert back to their most recent owner, requiring no repairs or delays, the instant Partisan units are no longer present there.
241.3.6 Shake Your Booty: Partisan Divisions and Corps units do not generate Booty when they capture an enemy HQ marker and force it to Dissolve (per 241.4.2). They brought matches.
So I read this to mean that the control of the hex doesn't change, but the stuff in the hex is unusable. So this would apply to Personnel cities and factories; thus the factory is not captured and does not relocate. I'm assuming this means that in the season start phase if a factory city was still Partisan disrupted that the city would produce 0 EP.
It's clear that HQ markers are dissolved, which makes sense because it includes people of the general staff (run for the hills!). What about IDM markers?
214.2.2 That's All, Folks!: Any Defense marker is removed (i.e. returned to the stock) if all the defending units in it's hex are Eliminated (DE or BT), successfully Overrun, or whenever an enemy unit is alone with it in its hex.
The rules as written would suggest the IDM marker is removed. Partisan divisions are referred to as units so I'd assume they qualify as enemy units. But the control limit rule seems to contradict this as defensive works are also facilities (i.e. physical structures in the hex, not people) and the partisan never really takes control of the hex. What's the design intent here? What qualifies as a facility beyond what's listed in the rule: IDM, Factory, Personnel City, Supply City, Objective, Oil Well?
GG often means 'Good Game'. Usually it's said once a game is over. It can be sincere, or mere 'formality' in the style of a farewell. -- But here it seems it has a clear rule reference!
Partisans: I feel ETO Partisans are excellent in design - where most of other games have partisans on steroids. BUT I think a small change is in order, it will change little but I feel enemy steps in the attacked town (by a partisan counter) should deny at a 1 to 1 ratio each partisan counter. Presently it makes litterally no difference to have garrisons or not behind, unless one has 2 steps. And frankly, to have a 2 step unit in the rearlines is not an antipartisan measure, it's an anti-breakthrough measure.
On the matter of Cards - I fully agree as already elsewhere posted Axis has rather shallow cards. In my latest game I was even pondering on taking Luftwaffe Comb Out as July 1 card, so go figure out...
Thank you. Alan, Jay, and Dave for all of your comments. I appreciate your answers to my clarification questions and your continuing efforts striving to make this game the best it can be. I understand that it's a WIP and you have far more to consider than just TITE balance. Here to help however I can (which right now is playing the game and providing what feedback I can).
Greater Germany
Though Army Org's change to being out till Autumn of '41 creates challenges for the Germans, Roll Bahns is just as good. There was a time when the Germans did fine with just Army Org--once we banned Demobilizing in EZOCs. Clearly there are many pathways to balance. Also, when we have balance for some, we won't have it for others. This is not an excuse for imbalance, but a reality.
Well, griping about history will only get you so far. The Axis' Army Organization card was played prior to Barbarossa to build a Strategic HQ (saving the Axis 2 PP, 2 EP, and 2 Fuel. I supposed if David really needs a variant to get that back, he could invade with that many fewer RPs...
Also, the Axis' Army Organization card arrives in Autumn, the same time as the Winter Preparations card. It was a real dilemma for the Axis which to choose. That's the historical storyboard.
Doc, we're working on closing a new release of TITE2 to post up and, as they sing in Aladdin, it's "A Whole New World." ;-)
GG refers to Greater Germany. The Free Improvement of a KG as Free Stuff must occur Greater Germany. Refugees sees two Sov PP added to their store when each lost Personnel Center first recovers from it's countdown and is Axis. Aggregate Resiliency is more help for Soviet PP. None of this is what you are looking for, indeed! Eight-limit for Sov PP spending per turn is an experimental idea suggested by a team member--unofficial, to be sure, though I think it has potential. This would see eight less Sov PP spent in July, 4 less in August. Pardon me for not knowing exactly how different the current rules are.
Not aware of any of these changes (I'm ETO v 42 with 0.4 Update Kit), so things like Refugees and Resiliency are alien to me, as are all the other things you mentioned. You're a few versions ahead of me, it seems.
And what does "GG" mean?
Doc
I have started a playtest with Jeff Nyquist and Alan (Jeff plays; Alan advises, keeps records and evaluates) after skipping a round due to burn out. I have played mostly Germans against them since the newer rules have been developed, so I am happy playing Russians. I should do very well because of the Soviet edge (if I'm right :D), because I can plan before each live session, and because I play very well--did I mention my exceptional modesty? So, three turns per week, using the present rules. There are no bad characters here--we all love this game and have sincere but different perspectives. I have some optimism. I would not play too much with the current rules w/o housing German help, were I not so fortunate to be able to play Russians now and make my case. Here are two problems with Barby's balance: too many Soviet steps arrive in '41 (though the first several turns are fine); the German losses become too high after two months with Leading Strong (a new problem). The Axis cards seem fine, and the play is fluid enough when there are not too many Russians. I am concerned about logistics, with the Army Org delayed in availability till Autumn of '41, but even this would be fine with fewer Russian steps showing up. Here is a totally unofficial suggestion: try the Soviets cannot spend more than 8 PP per turn; cancel Refugees; don't use Aggregate Resiliency. If this doesn't help enough, give the Germans a free Improvement of ANY one unit in GG or in Reserve as their one Free Stuff alternative to an IDM each turn in '1941. This, or something like it, would change balance considerably. If the game is close, that is instructive. I worry about long-time players getting frustrated with balance. Whatever you do, good luck.
Doc, give me something proactive here, please. What specific rules changes are you angling for exactly? From this (which you don't like) to that (which you do like), being mindful of the history?
I don't think it is a rule change specifically I'm "angling for." I've been looking for game balance since I got this two Christmases ago. Right now, with the ETO v42 rule set and 0.4 update kit, my thought process was to really dig into the Axis Events, and use them cleverly to swing the Pro-Soviet to 50/50 by clever and maximum exploitation of the Axis Event Cards.
My thought process is these cards may be able to break the Soviet 2 deep line (or prohibit that line from forming). So far, I have found Tank Aces, Panzer Blitz, and now Nationalists are all of little value. Experience has also shown me these are of little value late game, too.
Otherwise, it's threat is often worth more than its use.
That only works if the card IS AN ACTUAL THREAT. The card is not in it's current format, and requires specific cases for use (all the stars need to align) that don't allow you to hold the card in your hand indefinitely, waiting for months for something that may not present itself.
So after all this typing ... I guess what I'm "angling for" are Axis Event cards and the issues that surround them. I still haven't figured out if they are just weak, strong (unlikely), or even needed if all I'm doing is cycling through the same 5-6 cards. Sorry I can't pin it yet. But there is something amiss in the Axis Events as compared to Soviet Events. I feel it.
Doc
I keep forgetting to ask Alan when the latest module will be made public. In it, the Axis cards are rather different in a number of cases, and its cards are fresh in my mind. Tank Aces is better, but out till Spr '42; Nebelwerfers is good, but waits for w 42 (Jan); Prepared Crossing has all units in one attack across a major river ignore the halving; Strategic Redeployment can steal Leningrad against an unaware Russian; German Officers Show Initiative is very good as a threat, but sometimes is spectacular in execution; German Generals is awesome for multiple Broad-Shift Doubling, but can only be played after skipping a season after its prior use (Su '41, then W '42, say); Roll Bahns is powerful, and should be used wisely; Winter Preparation is a big choice to be made on Oct 1; and there are other new cards of some use I will not mention. There are important RP cards to play before some key cards are available. The card play is more interesting because more varied in '42.
That's why they operated (hiding and building up) in Mountains and other "terrain hexes" rather than standing out in the open, thumping their chests, and proclaiming "None shall Retreat past!" That's what happens if you raise a bunch of Divisions on the Ukrainian steps out in the clear terrain -- dead meat. Partisan "fighting" (Division) units were rarely employed instantly or extemporaneously. Instead, they were built up over time in hopes of becoming reasonably effective. It seems that is not how you envision using them, however. I'm getting the feeling that you want "instant cannon fodder and retreat blockers."
I'm not sure it's worth it to get put out over a card the Axis played, historically, ONCE (in an effort to covert Allied Partisan Divisions in the Balkans to Axis ones and to raise the Chechnya Division near Grozny). That there are other, probably better, choices for the Axis seems "historically accurate" and probably "about right" to me. The Allies garrisoned several locations because of the THREAT of this card (thus preempting many of its potential problems for the Allies).
Dave gets a cigar! That's exactly right. Sometimes it might be worth it to pull the trigger, but usually, the threat of doing so is enough (perhaps even better).
Doc, give me something proactive here, please. What specific rules changes are you angling for exactly? From this (which you don't like) to that (which you do like), being mindful of the history?
Keeping a Lubny HQ from entering Attack Mode is nice. Several Divs can stack in Kharkov, and might survive a turn. This might matter if Dnep has fallen or is cut off--there might be no Supply. They can off-set the 1L when attacking across any river. It's a good card to draw if you see a lax set-up re garrisons. Otherwise, it's threat is often worth more than its use.
Partisan units given their small size and transient nature have no affect on Production of RPs. They can remove an IDM and also force a HQ to relocate. We have clarified the ETO rules.
[251.3.3] CONTROL LIMIT: Where a Partisan unit resides, there is disorder. Partisan units neither capture nor control a specific hex. Its facilities (Rail, Anchorage, Air Base, etc.) are unusable by any Faction except for their RP Production (521.0) which continues normally. Control of that hex and its facilities revert back to their most recent owner, requiring no repairs or delays, the instant a Partisan unit is no longer present there.
Well, considering that supply is determined after the Soviet combat phase during the Axis turn, I'd like to get some ideas what you can use partisans for. Any help is appreciated. Given their low survivability, they can't even cut off supply lines due to the turn sequence. Given their inability to be placed adjacent to enemy units, they can't get close enough to hinder a retreat path either during combat. (If you have the ability to even have combat, and if you don't get a retreat, they are dead meat)
Doc
Cards a way of showing the use of Political Capital to help in the war effort. The selection of cards is a way for the player to adapt to their needs.
Partisan units given their small size and transient nature have no affect on Production of RPs. They can remove an IDM and also force a HQ to relocate. We have clarified the ETO rules.
[251.3.3] CONTROL LIMIT: Where a Partisan unit resides, there is disorder. Partisan units neither capture nor control a specific hex. Its facilities (Rail, Anchorage, Air Base, etc.) are unusable by any Faction except for their RP Production (521.0) which continues normally. Control of that hex and its facilities revert back to their most recent owner, requiring no repairs or delays, the instant a Partisan unit is no longer present there.
I get that ... I think what I'm missing is why bother having any cards at all.
You're missing that the Axis power is on the map, not in their card hand. Supporting their forces on the map by squeezing out more RPs is typically a pretty good play for the Axis.
lol ... then there is no reason for Event Cards, it just adds a layer of complexity and potential confusion ... I don't advocate for that course of action, but say it out of frustration. If the game drives toward this ... then I'm using the cards for RPs to win, and that means I'm only using events when I'm winning. Hard to change make a story.
Almost to the point where I should just use cards that give me RPs (PP, FP, and EP).
Bingo! You've found the history in the game. That's exactly what the Axis did...
Let me discuss this with Jay so we can put our heads together on this and figure something out.