Do they simply return to the Force pool so they can be built again? This scenario results in overflowding of Soviet Guard troops in the map, where they make a majority of forces.
Re; upgrading 4-4 guard Corps...I ask because there are a limited number of Guards Corps.
There are so many ?-4 Corps, that upgrading one in place and placing a newly built one there doesn't cause an issue (unless there are no ?-4 Guards Corps in the force pool at the start of the turn - very unlikely!)
This would have implications for other units that upgrade where there are a limited number (thinking later expansions here - you'd have better idea on those possibilities than I).
Allowing the 4-4 Guard Corps to be immediately rebuilt affects the rate at whilch 7-4/10-4 Guards Armies can enter the game. And yes, the Russians have pp issues from '42 onwards, but that is immaterial. If there are other limited units that follow this build up pattern, the rate at which they enter play is also affected by this ruling.
I think my morning coffee has kicked in enough to give a clear answer.
When the 7-4 was placed onto the map, the 1 PP spent was spent on the 7-4 not the 4-4. The aftermath of that action places the 4-4 into the force pool but the 4-4 was not selected. Spending 1 PP to build the 4-4 would be its first action in the OOB step on that unit.
As an example of a limit on two actions: You could not select a 4-4 unit from the Guards pool as a 1st of the month promotion and place it in the force pool or exchange with a ?-4 and then spend 1 PP on the unit.
"And, yes, you can buy that 4-4 Guards Infantry just raised to a 7-4 Guards Army ON THE SAME TURN, but you want to keep some 4-4s in your Force Pool to "make change" should that 7-4 be forced to breakdown."
Was just checking, as I was expecting a negative answer.
I was expecting a negative answer because it seemed to me rebuilding the 4-4 Guard Corps immediately would contradict the rule about only spending one pp per unit per turn. i.e. 2nd Guard Corps has 1pp spent on it to raise it to a 7-4 Guards Army. If you rebuild 2nd Guards Corps in the same hex (although you could place it anywhere, to empahise my point place it in the same hex), you now have 2 steps being spent on 2nd Guards Corps, which is not allowed under the rules.
I'm not sure how long a "round" is that you're describing? Is that a Game Turn, a Month, or a Season? You get one new Guards Promotion PER MONTH.
And, yes, you can buy that 4-4 Guards Infantry just raised to a 7-4 Guards Army ON THE SAME TURN, but you want to keep some 4-4s in your Force Pool to "make change" should that 7-4 be forced to breakdown.
As a follow up to this, when the Guard corps is upgraded to a 7-4 Guards army and returned to the pool, can it then be rebuilt immediately (in that same turn)?
You get a Guard upgrade every month. There are FIVE of the 4-4s, ELEVEN CAV but 31 of the 3-1-[6] Tank Corps and 13 Mech Corps. You can almost play the card every season and have the joy of an upgrade.
The 1st Guards Infantry Corps would be returned to the draw pool of untried units. Other USSR Guards Infantry Corps would be returned to the Force Pool.
Yes, later in the war, there are a LOT of Soviet Guards units, but be careful not to take all of the Infantry Corps out of the Force Pool! If you do, and a 7-4 Guards Infantry Army loses a step, it will become a ?-4 Untried unit instead of a 4-4 Guards Corps (because there were none in your Force Pool). :D
The Soviet 4-4 Guards Infantry Corps is a very "in demand" unit.
It is good on the map because it makes a Soviet BG when it dies.
It is good on the map because it can be fed 1 Soviet PP to make a 7-4 Guards Infantry Army (reduced).
It is good in the Force Pool because it is what you want your Guards Infantry Armies to break down into should they be reduced.
But there are only 5 of them. (6 if you're lucky.) Like many other unit types in your force pool and change box, these units must be "managed."
Re; upgrading 4-4 guard Corps...I ask because there are a limited number of Guards Corps.
There are so many ?-4 Corps, that upgrading one in place and placing a newly built one there doesn't cause an issue (unless there are no ?-4 Guards Corps in the force pool at the start of the turn - very unlikely!)
This would have implications for other units that upgrade where there are a limited number (thinking later expansions here - you'd have better idea on those possibilities than I).
Allowing the 4-4 Guard Corps to be immediately rebuilt affects the rate at whilch 7-4/10-4 Guards Armies can enter the game. And yes, the Russians have pp issues from '42 onwards, but that is immaterial. If there are other limited units that follow this build up pattern, the rate at which they enter play is also affected by this ruling.
Phil
I think my morning coffee has kicked in enough to give a clear answer.
When the 7-4 was placed onto the map, the 1 PP spent was spent on the 7-4 not the 4-4. The aftermath of that action places the 4-4 into the force pool but the 4-4 was not selected. Spending 1 PP to build the 4-4 would be its first action in the OOB step on that unit.
As an example of a limit on two actions: You could not select a 4-4 unit from the Guards pool as a 1st of the month promotion and place it in the force pool or exchange with a ?-4 and then spend 1 PP on the unit.
Re:
"And, yes, you can buy that 4-4 Guards Infantry just raised to a 7-4 Guards Army ON THE SAME TURN, but you want to keep some 4-4s in your Force Pool to "make change" should that 7-4 be forced to breakdown."
Was just checking, as I was expecting a negative answer.
I was expecting a negative answer because it seemed to me rebuilding the 4-4 Guard Corps immediately would contradict the rule about only spending one pp per unit per turn. i.e. 2nd Guard Corps has 1pp spent on it to raise it to a 7-4 Guards Army. If you rebuild 2nd Guards Corps in the same hex (although you could place it anywhere, to empahise my point place it in the same hex), you now have 2 steps being spent on 2nd Guards Corps, which is not allowed under the rules.
I'm not sure how long a "round" is that you're describing? Is that a Game Turn, a Month, or a Season? You get one new Guards Promotion PER MONTH.
And, yes, you can buy that 4-4 Guards Infantry just raised to a 7-4 Guards Army ON THE SAME TURN, but you want to keep some 4-4s in your Force Pool to "make change" should that 7-4 be forced to breakdown.
As a follow up to this, when the Guard corps is upgraded to a 7-4 Guards army and returned to the pool, can it then be rebuilt immediately (in that same turn)?
You get a Guard upgrade every month. There are FIVE of the 4-4s, ELEVEN CAV but 31 of the 3-1-[6] Tank Corps and 13 Mech Corps. You can almost play the card every season and have the joy of an upgrade.
"For life" and death. It never reverts back to a regular Corps once it has become a Guards Corps.
What about the guards cavalry corps.
In the rules it states that a guards conversion is for life.
Does this mean that a guard cavalry unit is placed in the force pool as a guard unit or does it revert to its ordinary side?
The 1st Guards Infantry Corps would be returned to the draw pool of untried units. Other USSR Guards Infantry Corps would be returned to the Force Pool.
Yes, later in the war, there are a LOT of Soviet Guards units, but be careful not to take all of the Infantry Corps out of the Force Pool! If you do, and a 7-4 Guards Infantry Army loses a step, it will become a ?-4 Untried unit instead of a 4-4 Guards Corps (because there were none in your Force Pool). :D