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A Change to the Beginning

For Thunder in the East, the beginning is Barbarossa just before July 1941. The other ETO games will have their own start. Researching the Order of Battle for all the countries early in the war has lead to a slight change in the starting forces, mostly in the rear areas, for the Soviets.

Below is a working copy for Barbarossa using the boxed game or Vassal Module 1.1

The Soviets have lost some 8-4s with units in more locations but, with less offensive abilities.

The ETO rules have not been finalized. Some options are listed for players to select.

Most players are using the 1.1 (Living) Rule book which includes the refit rules and errata.

Here is the most current copy of the updated TiTE rules.

The turn-by-turn gameplay has not changed much with the minor rule development. The building of air units only on the first of the month including exiting the Destroyed Box, yields a more historical number of active air units. Some players are using the weather and new cards in the Vassal 5.5 module.

If you are looking to use the Partisans, play with the newer ETO rules where the Partisan Detachments are not cluttering up the map.

The ETO Rules are still developing so, changes can happen. Adding Naval units and combat are adding to the page count but, also to the interesting unit list.

17 comments

17 Comments

Luis Sacristan

Jun 11, 2023

Thanks Gerald, i'll write you for the latest files.

While can you answer these questions, please?:

-Scenario Barbarossa tells that Axis card in hand German Generals can't be played first turn because no German HQ begins in Attack mode: I see it can't be played to use the second option of the card (Maintain german HQs in Attack mode for free) but i don't know why can't be played if choosing the first option (increase attack suport shifts by one of one german HQ in attack mode). Is it possible becausethis effect can't be combined with the effects of Sneak Attack from Blitzkrieg card?

-I read that air missions move to their target locations during Special Movement but i also read "note and declare all your air missions during Your Battles Declaration Step". For me it is a little contradictory but as Battles Declaration is immediately after Special Movement i think it is not important and you can send air missions when you wish in any of both steps. Am i correct?

-Trading Untried Mechanized Corps for Infantry Armies rule: tells when removing from game each Early Machanized Corp then move one 8-4 Rifle Infantry Army to Soviet Force Pool. I guess this rule is obsolete because in current scenario start for Barbarossa all 8-4 Rifle Infantry Armies start in Soviet Force Pool. Am i correct?

-Rule 10.2.2 In Extremis Relocation of an HQ tells that: it happens when an enemy Ground unit enters its hex and your HQ marker is alone. I guess it also happens exactly the same when an enemy Ground unit enters its hex when overruning with success a ground unit stacked with your HQ marker. Am i correct?

Thanks!

Gerald Johnson

Jun 11, 2023

Replying to

Luis,

I misplayed the Generals card too. We have more clear wording on the card now.

The restriction on the card in the box was not clear to me either. Many people placed the HQ into attack mode and then played the card. Now, no more guessing what it meant.

You can be placing the air units as you move the land units. At the end of special movement or before combat, make sure you have placed the air units with a planned attack. The newer Sequence of play has the air placement happening in the Special Movement. The SoP in the box has it starting the Combat Phase. All combats and missions must be declared and marked before starting the combat resolution.

Yes, you are correct. Now all the 8-4 start in the force pool.

Right again! Once the HQ is in a hex occupied by an enemy unit, it must undergo Extremis Relocation.

Jay

Luis Sacristan

Jun 02, 2023

Please, about the below more current scenario start for Barbarossa, is this rule still in effect?: Due to Stalin’s purges (in this case, Army officers, particularly those of higher rank), the Soviets can only improve two Rifle Infantry Army units per turn to their 3-step level. Once the Axis start chopping down 8-4s, the Soviets will be a while building masses of them back up to full strength in their effort to fill long stretches of their line with these brutes. This limitation ends in Spring ’42 (as surviving officers learn to lead at the highest levels). Thanks! Luis

Gerald Johnson

Jun 02, 2023

Replying to

Frank took a look at what the Purge did to the Soviets and the limit on building up full-strength armies is very realistic. The rule is still in effect.

The air force will pay the price before Barbarossa so, once the shooting starts there will be no other effects.

Here is a more current scenario start:

Send me an email at: hobbitjay@aol.com

I will share the latest files.

Luis Sacristan

Apr 30, 2023

Please, another question, about setting up Garrisons and Defense Markers from Reserves [3.4]: Can they be set up in ANY hex that can trace an OLoC to a friendly City hex that, itself, has a RLoC or NLoC, included hexes in front line or hexes into three hexes from front line?

Thanks!

Gerald Johnson

Apr 30, 2023

Replying to

If you are playing with the free setup, YES, once you have fulfilled the requirements to place units in Objective hexes, there are other hexes that can have garrisons and IDM. Many players are drawn to the historical setup that is not too bad.

The Historical Start has had playtesting, A free setup might have some improvement but, I do not think too much. The IDMs of what was later called the Stalin line might be improved but, again a small change.

Newest rules:

[151.6] Rear Area Deployment: Setup a Factions’ Rear Area Forces (151.2.2) as indicated on their scenario’s setup instructions. These typically divide Rear Areas by countries (e.g., “In the USSR”) or larger areas (e.g., “In the Europe RP Pool zone”).

Setup those Rear Area forces lacking more exact deployment instructions in their geographic area as follows:

[151.6.1] HQ Deployment: Unless otherwise indicated, Rear Area HQ markers are set up in a friendly City hex at least six overland hexes from the nearest unit of another Faction or Neutral, functional (124.2; i.e., with no Countdown marker) and in Balanced mode.

[151.6.2] Covering the Rear Area: One Rear Area Ground unit must deploy in each friendly Red Objective hex in its specified setup area that does not already have a friendly Ground unit in it.

If there are not enough Rear Area Ground units to cover them all, occupy them in this priority order:

1. Personnel City hexes (i.e., those showing their intrinsic 6-hex Supply Radius)

2. Economic City hexes (i.e., those with a Factory or Oil Well symbol that are not also Personnel cities)

3. Other Red Objective hexes (until you have occupied each)

[151.6.3] Additional Rear Area Deployment: After Rear Area Ground units have ensured that each friendly Red Objective hex has a friendly Ground unit in it, place any additional Rear Area Ground units in or, for Small Ground units only, adjacent to:

· Friendly City hexes,

· That are at least three overland hexes from the nearest unit of another Faction or Neutral, and

· They do not already have a friendly Ground unit (i.e., you can deploy no more than one per Rear Area Ground unit per such empty City hex).

If you still have Rear Area Ground units to deploy, add them, within the stacking limit (212.1), to these same hexes (113.6).

[151.7] Garrisons and Defensive Works: Some of these are part of a Factions’ Engaged Forces as indicated on their scenario’s setup instructions. Others are Rear Area Forces and deploy at that time. Deploy them as specified in the setup instructions.

Set up those having no particular deployment instructions as if they were newly purchased pieces of that type (see 533.3.2 and 533.4).

Luis Sacristan

Apr 26, 2023

Setting up Barbarossa1.1Oct2021 with a boxed game, we have seen that prohibition to deploy large soviet units adjacent to other large soviet unit has been deleted. Is it correct? Thanks!

Gerald Johnson

Apr 26, 2023

Replying to

The newer setup information has only 4-5-4s on the front line and there is no longer the restriction of placing armies adjacent to each other.

Here is a more current scenario start for Barbarossa.

Gerald Johnson

Apr 26, 2023

Replying to

You can use the scenario info to have a free setup. Frank refined the Historical setup not long ago and it has lead to balanced games.

Gerald Johnson

Dec 10, 2021

Here is a more curent Barbarossa start for those using the boxed game.

Alan Emrich

Dec 10, 2021

Jay will know what to do when he's online.

iver

Dec 10, 2021

In the new historical barbarossa setup it states that their should be 28 ?-4 corps, but the vassal setup only have 24. How do we solve this problem? I am ready to start a new game and would like to try this new setup.

Gerald Johnson

Dec 10, 2021

Replying to

I made an error which was corrected but I did not post the newer file. You want the October 1.1 file for the boxed game. It does use all 24 of the (?-4)s. There is a special rule to use the Conscript 1-4s is needed. Posted below.

iver

Dec 10, 2021

Replying to

Ok. I have read the 1 okt 2021 setup and it clarifies. I am going to give it a go. Thank you.

Gerald Johnson

Sep 30, 2021

Frank is working a more playable Historical Barbarossa so those changes should help those playing with a free setup a more realistic outcome. Here is the currant plan for those using their boxed game.

Alan Emrich

Sep 27, 2021

Allow me to put forth a note about the process. After playtesting the latest iteration of the historical setup, the gameplay imbalance remained profound, so we had a design summit to discuss why that is. Over the course of that discussion, designer Frank Chadwick unfurled a Soviet map detailing the exact troop positions in this area at the opening of Barbarossa at the DIVISION level. And that, dear reader, was a real eye-opener! I mean, it is what we all knew ABOUT where the Army and Corps units where, but we learned that their Divisions were really spread far and wide. Selecting which specific hex to place a single 8-4 was for us to guess at its approximate "center of gravity" and hope for the best.

Hmmm...

In a taffy-pull discussion about the Soviet setup, we hit upon an idea that has worked very well for the Soviets in the other scenario setups -- allowing the them the ability to make some small "operational alterations" in their troop deployments. Ah!

So, what does that portent?

Remember those Soviet 8-4s? Now picture the Soviet player being allowed to place them, if desired, as a(n 8-4, reduced) 4-5-4 + one nearby ?-4 Rifle Corps. That better simulates the widespread historical deployment of each Army and affords the Soviet player some flexibility in setting up their forces.

Look, we know that darn-near-all of those Soviet units deploying around the border are doomed (that is not really impacted by this alteration), but those Soviet units need to be a fair "speed bump" to the incoming Axis troops and leave pockets of resistance that will need a turn or two to reduce. These latter traits have been elusive to get "just right," but I think we've dialed in an operational plan to make the puzzles of 1) the Soviet setup and 2) its Axis Blitzkrieg! opening turn dissection much more interesting and historically accurate. :D

Gerald Johnson

Sep 27, 2021

We are continuing to update Barbarossa to make the most playable and historical scenario start for the Thunder in the East. We should have it soon, like October 2021, hopefully.